The Zine UK

Interview

Dean / Die Tonight

Vienna, strippers, Rick Owens and the death of the scene

It was one of those Liverpool days when the wind doesn’t so much blow as audition for a disaster movie: sideways rain, chip papers taking flight, and every pub door in the city groaning on its hinges. We were tucked into a corner of a dimly lit boozer, the kind with sticky carpets and a jukebox that’s seen things, when the air itself seemed to rip open. A flash of ’80s glamour, neon, hairspray, the ghost of a leather jacket, and out tumbled the chaos twins, all limbs and laughter, as if a wormhole had opened somewhere between a Bowie video and a lost weekend. Behind them, with the calm of a man who’s seen stranger things, came Dean: former frontman of Generation, current frontman of Die Tonight, and a walking, talking hurricane in his own right. We got a round in. We sat down. And then we talked about Vienna, strippers, Rick Owens, the death of the scene, and why the best nights always end at Teddy’s. This is what happened.

Dean: Hello, my name is Dean. I’m the frontman from Die Tonight, and here’s some nice little fun facts about me. One is that I have the same name as Rick Sanchez off Rick and Morty. Two is that—let me think of something—I don’t know, I fell in love recently and I’m going back to Madrid to go and see her. Third is I fucking love music and I love getting on stage. I’m wild; I can’t give a straight answer because my head’s scatty.

Dizzy: Can you just give us a rundown of what’s happening with Die Tonight in the next couple of months? Anything that we should know?

Dean: Yeah, so basically we’ve been in Vienna. We’ve recorded like so many songs, probably nearly an album’s worth or more. So there’s going to be a remix of Shrine Song coming out, mixed by Tom Saint (@tomsaintxo), who’s a top G—shout out bro. Then that’ll be coming out this month, then in October, we’ve got a new song coming out called Reason to Believe. We’ve got loads of gigs coming soon.

Ruby: What can someone expect from a Die Tonight gig?

Dean: A lot of chaos, a lot of sexy vibes, a lot of crowd interaction, ’cause that’s something that we love, as you know, ’cause you come to our shows. But yeah, just a lot of crowd interaction and just getting people involved with each other. That’s just something that we want to do.

Ruby: I don’t think I have been to a gig where I haven’t been kicked in the head by you.

Dean: I’m actually sorry about that. There’s a few people actually saying that.

Dizzy: Right, now we’ve actually got an admission if we sue. “Right, we’ve got him, that’s all we need. We’re off now.”

Ruby: You had your band, Generation before and now you’ve gone in a completely different direction. The last few songs I heard you play with Generation, do you think that would have potentially been the direction Generation would have gone in?

Dean: No, I don’t think it would have been, because I think with Generation that was a lot more—you know, I loved it at the time; it was like more pop rock type stuff. I’d come off stage feeling unfulfilled, if that makes sense. I wasn’t getting to convey the message I wanted to and I wasn’t getting the emotion I wanted to out of it, with that though, everyone’s still amazing friends. It was a mutual thing where everyone wanted to do different things. So we all just were like, “You know what, this has been a good one. Let’s all just stay friends and just do our thing.” I think this direction is way better. It’s more me; it’s more dark; it’s more sexy, and I just feel I could just be a freak. I could just be weird, and I don’t have to answer to anyone because it’s me leading the project. If I say or do anything wrong, it’s on me and I’ve got my answer.

Ruby: I think you’re definitely doing music for strippers.

Dean: Oh yeah, definitely. Well, the second song that we played, that was actually written for a stripper. Because she said to me—she didn’t give me a dance or anything, but I was in there just chatting away—and she said, “Dean… somebody needs to write a song for me to dance to.” I was like, “Leave it with me.” Literally, like two weeks later, I wrote it and sent it to her, and now that’s one of her songs that she dances to.

Dizzy: So any strippers that want any songs?

Dean: Yeah, any strippers that want any songs, it’s 0151…

Ruby: Speaking of songs, Illusion was an interesting song as well because the way you introduced that on stage, it was like, “Yeah, the world is burning. It’s all shit, but we’re right here.”

Dean: That’s what it’s like, because Illusion, my brother James, he wrote the first verse, and that’s more about selling out, obviously we’re consuming things, you see people getting no shots, all different things and it’s about, society making you feel as if you have to do something. The second verse is by me, and that’s more about the state of the world, and it’s saying, you know, we’ve got nothing to believe in they sell us pain and gasoline. It’s about the whole two different matters but the same thing.

Ruby: How did you all end up meeting?

Dean: Do you know what, it’s mad because in lockdown, me and Lenny, we were writing songs over Skype or whatever the hell it’s called. So we were writing songs back and forth. I always said to him, “Lenny, we need to meet. We need to make something together.” Because I just love his guitar sounds. He was just like, “Yeah, yeah.” He’s always just too chilled with it. Years later, I met this producer and he was like, “Come fly to Vienna, come record.” I’m like, “Bro, I’m dead serious, right? Just get on this flight now. Come to Vienna.” and he was like, “Fucking come on, yeah lad!” and all that, and he jumped on the flight. Jay’s my brother. And then with Harry, this is a crazy one. I know Harry because he interviewed me and James when we were in Generation and he was doing drum covers of our tunes. We just became like really good friends.

Dizzy: So you can be in the next band?

Dean: Yeah innit, just like another year, “By the way, do you want to come play bass?”

Ruby: I’ll have to be the Bez of the band.

Dean: Just some maracas or something. I’ll tell you what, I’m throwing a party; it was just a last-minute thing. Go to the studio, if you wanna come, come down.

Dizzy: And I can put that in the interview so everyone can come out, right?

Dean: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ruby: It’ll be like a Skins party. How did you get to know the producer?

Dean: That was through a friend called Evin; you might have seen him? He’s a really cool guy from Ireland. We all went to his family, I don’t know whether to call it a manor house, but it’s like this historical house anyway; it’s really nice. He threw a retreat there. Musicians from all over the world flew in; I met this producer Simon there. We get talking and he’s like, “Bro come to Vienna.” By the way, Simon is one of the nicest guys ever. He’s like a massive producer in Vienna. That’s how I met him anyway, through Evin. Shout out to Evin (@evinevinevinevinevin). Come and do me make up as well, bro. I need to get him down. We’ll literally just get him down to do all our make up.

Ruby: What are your recommendations for Vienna if you want to go out?

Dean: I’ll tell you right now, this is the best part of Vienna. I don’t care what any Viennese says. Is that what they’re called, Viennese?

Ruby: Let’s just say they’re Viennese.

Dean: It’s called Bukowskis, yeah. It’s named after the dude who wrote the books. It’s such a vibe. We played a game; it’s called Shithead. Do you know how to play it? It’s a card game. Everyone carries a fucking deck of cards. We didn’t know this, and we’ve been a few times. We’re chilling. There’s like these girls playing it. Me and the drummer are like, “Hey, they're playing Shithead.” I was like, “Harry, I’m too shy, ask them if you can join them.” We ended up becoming like dead good mates with these two girls, just genuine mates, and like every night we’d all just meet up playing Shithead. It was just wow. Yeah, go to the 'Kowski’s; it’s so sick.

Ruby: I will remember that next time I’m in Vienna. I’m now going to ask a very basic question, but if you could collaborate with anyone, who would you collaborate with?

Dean: Do you know what, I love this question because it changes all the time. I’ll answer it this way, but I’m curious if you have ever had it—in whatever field you do—where there’s a time when you’re like, you strongly feel you want to collaborate with a person and then as the years go on, you look back and you’re like, “Actually, maybe not,” but then there’s another person. I’ve had that. Right now, probably— you know what, I’m actually doing my dream collab, to be honest. It’s with mokk.me (@mokk.me). They’re coming out in October, they’re doing a song, and then we’re going to do a tune together, so that. My dream one is mokk.me right now, and that’s happening.

Ruby: What can we expect from the collaboration?

Dean: You can expect—so you’ve seen them live, haven’t you? Imagine it’s going to be a mix of mokk.me and Die Tonight. It’s going to be— sexy vibes, major harmonies between me and her. I mean, that’s the plus side. You know, you’ve got a female vocal and a male, so we’re going to harmonise and forth. And just loads of crazy changes and stuff like that. It’s just going to be chaos. Sexy chaos; that’s what it’s going to be. Sexy chaos.

Ruby: Sexy chaos is always the best. I’m also gonna do a little bit about fashion as well because I’m a fashion graduate.

Dean: Yeah, yeah, go for it.

Ruby: You’ve come up on my feed a lot with advertising for Phix while I’ve been doomscrolling.

Dean: I’m watching you all the time.

Ruby: If you could collaborate with any designer, who would it be?

Dean: Do you know what? So with this one—so do you like Rick Owens?

Ruby: Yeah, I love Rick Owens.

Dean: There’s so many people. With me, I love fashion—same as you; I got, all of us can see it, we’re all into fashion. By the way, I love your outfit; it’s a vibe.

Dizzy: It’s my Penny Lane coat.

Dean: It’s a vibe; the whole style’s a vibe. I love fashion, but there’s so many people I meet with— they’ll walk into a room and they’re like this. See the way they’re wearing, head to toe Rick. And again, I like Rick Owens, but when it’s just head to toe Rick, it’s like they’re all just copying pictures. They’re all like nonchalant like this (demonstrates being nonchalant). When you go to London, you go to these things and they’re all just like "…" And you go, “Yo, what’s happening, bro? You good?” they’re just like "…" And you’re just like, “Oh, okay.” So basically anyone that acts too nonchalant, if you’re listening to this, it’s actually not nonchalant to try and be nonchalant. I just want to get that out there because honestly, the amount of times I’ve been in rooms where people like "…" You just think, “Why am I even trying?” It’s so boring. But sorry, I’ve gone off on a tangent. So Rick Owens—and I know the exact ideas, because I was actually having this conversation with the guy who owns Phix; he’s one of my friends. Rick Owens is on my radar, that I wanna do a collaboration, and I’ve got everything that I wanna do with him. Rick, if you’re reading this, bro, hit me up. Say, for example, someone’s just in uni, do they ever give you any contact and say, “Right, we like what you do, we’ll put you in touch?” Sometimes, yeah.

Ruby: They’ll put you forward for internships and stuff.

Dean: Oh really? Would you ever do that?

Ruby: No, I discovered I absolutely hated the fashion industry, like the whole thing—like what you were talking about with the over-consumption. The fashion industry is just built on that.

Dean: Yeah, it is. It’s so fast-paced. All the creative industry is similar, isn’t it? Like, you know, it’s so fucking superficial. I feel dead bad sometimes when you’re doing a shoot, and then you see the assistants are so amazing, and then they get treated like shit, but then they’re trying their best. You can see inside the hating; they’re trying to be positive, and I just want to give them a hug and be like, “Fuck, you’re worth more than this.” Honestly, it makes me feel dead sad when I see that shit on a set, and like, fuck all you horrible people. But yeah, sorry, I always get on tangents with that, because I just think, like, people just get fucked over so much.

A small discussion about the fashion industry and collaboration leads back to Rick Owens.

Dean: That’d be the one that I’d collab with—Rick Owens, again. Hit me up, bro. I’ve got some fire ideas. I’ve got all the ideas there. I’ll send them over. You can’t see what we all look like, but us three look like we could be off The Lost Boys, okay? In the best way, we’re all sexy people.

Ruby: With the band as well, it’s obvious you’re all into fashion. How would you describe your identity as a band?

Dean: I’d describe the identity as—with this, I’d say it’s quite a sexy, raw, good scruffy. Because Lenny—I love Lenny’s style; he just rocks up in his leather trucker jacket, his jeans, and it looks simple, but he’s very specific, Lenny. It has to sit on his leg a certain way; it has to fit his body. I love that. I like the way it’s a simple fit but it looks great on Lenny. With James, he rocks up in his suit; it's a fitted suit. Harry just loves having his top off; he likes having his top off. Then for me, I just walk up in some of those rise pants and then I’ll be topless.

Ruby: With platform shoes to kick people in the head.

Dean: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Do you know what’s crazy? I haven’t worn platform shoes for a while, you know. I’ve just been wearing like these—these are Phix (@phixclothing). I’ve just been wearing these.

Ruby: Got to tell you they are nice.

Dean: Yeah, they are, aren’t they? You can actually get these online, I think; they’re like, I think like 500 pounds, but they are good quality, made in Spain. And these ones are one of one because they’re the sample Rolling Stones ones. So on the back it says the Rolling Stones there, but all the other pairs don’t have that; they just have the metal can. Shout out to Adam, legend.

Ruby: So, shall I do an announcement about the Music Tourist Board? I’m taking over a thing that the Zine are doing called the Music Tourist Board.

Dizzy: It’s basically creating something within the grassroots for musicians and stuff, and it’s to build bridges. It’s a kind of like a TripAdvisor for musicians, so which venues and promoters they should avoid, which venues and promoters are good. To help up and coming bands avoid being ripped off. The Zine for about 10 years has been Caffy St. Luce. She’s the brains of the outfit with whatever we are. But because it was just me and Caffy, we’ve now got Ruby here.

Ruby: I feel like there is such a block on bands in the north, especially with grassroots bands—they all just go to Manchester, but they don’t go anywhere else in the North. I sort of want to build a network within Liverpool, Huddersfield, Blackpool, Chester, etc., so we can have something that actually thrives and has its own ecosystem.

Dean: 100%, I agree with you, Ruby; that would be amazing. Honestly, that’s so wild that you say that, because it’s so true. Even for example Liverpool—this is a conversation that you probably have heard yourselves, but I have this all the time—I think that the music industry is dying from the inside out because the promoters who are putting the gigs on, it’s just a job for them; there’s no passion, there’s no anything. And around here they probably disagree with that, and there’s loads of people that are like, “Nah, nah,” but it is; it’s dying from the inside out. There’s no passion, there’s nothing, because I know that from living it. If they try and say to me, “What are you talking about?” I’m like, “Well, it’s just a job for you.” Same with BBC Radio Introducing—I’m going to be honest. All of them, they just play the same band, same artist, same whatever. Nothing progresses. Yeah, they bring a new song out; they get to play it. But you get bands like us, for example, who we actually have such a big vision. And this isn’t me shitting on any bands, because everyone’s amazing. What I mean is when you don’t get given… It’s kind of like… The more you want to be massive and the more you want to be big—and we’re nice people—the more they want to put you down, and they’re like, “That’s too different; we’re not gonna take a chance.” None of us DJs want to be the first one to take a chance and go, “Do you know what? People might think, ‘Why the fuck is he playing them?’ But I’ll give it a chance.” It’s just the same indie band, same this, same that. And it’s like, give some chance to other—not just us; I mean other bands—a bit more different, a bit more commercial where they could go massive, get sound. That’s just my belief in us. I think we work really hard; we’ve got good stage presence, good tunes. Give us a chance.

Dizzy: That’s the point of why we’re doing it, and also to build a network. The commercial music industry is for a very select certain class of people. So we’ve got no choice but to help each other out. Which is the idea behind the Music Tourist Board: having bands say this promoter’s good, that promoter’s not, this venue’s good. And also to develop gig shares. So it’s like, I’m playing this gig, I need support; you’re playing this gig, I need support; let’s swap. And that’s really the only way we’re going to save the indie scene I think, to actually work together and be collaborative, and that’s kind of what we’re shoving on Ruby’s shoulders now.

After a long (and very neurodivergent) tangent involving Jimmy Savile (and him eating babies), and an unusual amount of songs that revolve around him—Craic Killers (@craickillers) doing a lot of good for Ireland and the Gaeilge language—we end up back where we started, about collaboration and the behind the scenes of the industry.

Dean: If there’s any booking agents out there that read this, that’s the thing we need, a good booking agent. With us, we just need to get put in front of the right crowd so we can deliver. Just put us in front of a crowd, and that’s it. I can’t think of any promoters because honestly, a lot of them are just "…" They all need to basically not see it as just a job; they need to put some fire in there. You all need to put fire into the scene, feed that fire in your belly, or give the job to someone else. Because, yeah, you have to pay your bills; yeah, it’s tough out there, but listen, it’s even tougher for musicians. With you guys—or girls, whatever—being the sole link to bands getting gigs, put some fucking effort in. Why are bands having to go out to grind even ten times harder? My mum’s not even in the industry, and over the years, she goes to me, “They don’t promote the gig.” If my mum’s seeing that—she’s the most chill normal person you’ve ever seen, she’s going about day to day, and she sees it—she’s like, “Dean, what the fuck? The industry’s messed up.” And it just is. When you go to Europe, you just notice it yourselves—you get treated like royalty over there. Whether you have one follower or 10 million, they treat you amazing; they get like whole cases. I’ll be finished, then one’ll be like, “We’ll get you some more beers.” In the UK, it disrespects artists and treat us like shit, but we bring billions every year, so make it make sense. I mean, it’s ridiculous.

Dizzy: You’re saying with Europe they’re like, “What do you need? We know what is needed,” but here, pay to play is making a comeback; it’s terrifying.

Dean: And even like one warm fucking beer. They’re like, “What, you want a warm beer? Can of Fosters?” Nah.

Dizzy: You don’t get a rider any more. I was about to book an Irish tour for the band I manage. And everywhere wants the deposit. Like, we can’t. We have no fucking money. We’re here to make money.

Dean: Honestly, it’s crazy how it’s all about money. Honestly, to be fair, I just thought of amazing, amazing, amazing team and promoters, which genuinely I think they’re gonna make a massive, massive impact on the scene. It’s just the brand Wolfies Whisky (@wolfieswhisky). The team there—shout out Kelly and everyone. They are actually so amazing; they’re just genuinely about the music. Kelly’s even got a radio show; it’s called Booglaloo Radio (@booglalooradio). And honestly, she’s amazing.

Ruby: You’re a native Scouser and I’m a transplant, so with talking about Liverpool, do you think there’s a huge difference between the Liverpool scene and the London one?

Dean: 100%. In London, because when I lived there, every night there was always something, there’s always a gig on, there’s always a party, you can always go to a pub and you can speak to a band or a musician, start networking or whatever. In Liverpool… In Liverpool it’s so cliquey, and it just is. I’m over not voicing how I feel about it because no one does anything for you anyway, so I may as well say tell the truth. The scene is so cliquey. You’re walking to a place, everyone knows who each other is; you go up, “Hi, like, how are you?” and they look at you as if you’re an absolute weirdo. Nobody knows what collaboration is any more. Everyone’s so, “I’m going to just be on my own; I’m going to play every single instrument.” It’s just become such an isolated world. That’s fine doing it all on your own, but I feel like people have forgotten what music’s about: fucking collaboration. My point is, singing, being a front man, writing the lyrics, writing the melodies—I want someone else to come in and play guitar. I don’t understand how the scene has become so cliquey and so shit. There’s just no scene. There’s no scene. That’s my point on it: Liverpool, do better.

Dizzy: That’s exactly where you were going to come in.

Ruby: It’s culturally isolated, Liverpool. No bands come here; barely any bands leave here.

Dean: Literally, it’s true.

Dizzy: And it makes no sense; it’s the home of the Beatles and they’re home to Echo and the Bunnymen.

Ruby: This is kind of a venue shout out, but I feel like Future Yard (@future_yard) in Birkenhead are doing really good stuff.

Dean: I haven’t been there yet, but it does; they’ve got like the crates and stuff like that.

Ruby: They do a lot for the community in terms of collaborating with local charities and the grassroots industry, including a festival in Birkenhead with smaller local bands playing various venues. They also put the work in with promoting their gigs, and it’s shown when a band plays Liverpool to an almost empty room vs. a crowded room there which is double the capacity.

Dean: That’s amazing though, but that’s it, isn’t it? When you get a good promoter, it’s amazing, because if they’re treating you well and you see they’re putting work in, you want to automatically, organically—obviously bands do anyway—but you want to put even more grind in to do well for them, because you’re on that same journey. Let’s make it fire. I’m so happy that you are gonna make a change; I just know you are—and it’s mad, the amount of times I’ve sat there fucking just thinking like, “What can I do to make the change?” I don’t know; I was like, “Should I make a TikTok channel to fucking like talk about it and try and get people?” You know, I just didn’t know what to do, but it’s nice to hear that you’ve got it in the reins.

Ruby: Well, you say that; it’s more like we’re trying to tame it at the moment.

Dean: It’s better than nothing, isn’t it?

Dizzy: I mean, it’s insane. Promoters now will be the first ones to not pay you because you’ve not promoted enough.

Dean: Literally, it’s like, yeah, like what the hell. And they go, “I paid for this.” It’s like, “Oh yeah, that’s cool, you paid for like the venue, whatever, but it should be in their best interest to like promote the gig; it’s exciting.”

Future Yard during the time of this interview are in the process of building a 600 capacity venue and have been fundraising money through a series of shows. Birkenhead has also been shortlisted for UK’s Town of Culture, which if they win could receive £3million towards regeneration. Birkenhead is the only town in the North West to have been shortlisted.

Ruby: I feel like venues in Liverpool are doing some good because they’re getting bands and fans from outside Liverpool. I do think though they’re resting on the laurels of the Beatles.

Dean: Honestly, I do know what you mean about that. If you ask someone, “Liverpool,” wherever you go in the world, they say the Beatles— that’s an amazing thing, it’s important. But I do know what you mean. People aren’t looking for anything else other than the Beatles.

Ruby: They could do so much with Mathew Street.

Dean: 100%, because that’s where everyone goes, isn’t it? The Cavern and that, and it’s so true. Me and my brothers all say it—when you walk past a pub and you hear the acoustic guitar and do you know like the thump and guitar, it makes you want to go to sleep, but fair play. I don’t know; there’s nowhere to go. I imagine there was a place in the past where all of us could go every Friday where we could be like “Hey, let’s meet.” Let’s just think of a name off the top of my head; let’s just call it the Fire Exit. “Let’s meet the Fire Exit at 8:00 p.m. tonight. There new bands on tonight; let’s go and check them out." There’s nothing like that any more. I’ve never thought about that—the fact that, what the fuck, why aren’t they getting some sick bands on? Look, this band is sick; get some OG bands on.

Ruby: Also, as well, I even think Teddy’s would be a great music venue. I’m not sure how well they would be able to sort of deal with it, but like the downstairs would be so great because you could—where it’s split as well—you could like, I want to listen to the band but I don’t want to be involved.

Dean: I know. Right, Teddy’s, if you’re reading this, you need to get a live music license. Can you imagine that though, being like, “Let’s go and watch this band at Teddy’s”? That would be sick. And then you party after.

Ruby: I’ve never had a normal night in Teddy’s, like, add that to the mix.

Dean: Honestly, that would actually be amazing, because Teddy’s is always the place you go, and you go, “Teddy’s one, yeah?” And you just, you know it’s going to be a 6am y’all.

Ruby: I feel like Teddy’s is Liverpool’s version of the Dublin Castle.

Dean: Yeah. It is true that though, innit?

Ruby: I’ve never had a normal night in the Dublin Castle either.

Dean: Same here; it’s a crazy place for the vibe, innit?

Dizzy: Shall we wrap it up? I mean, you’ve been talking for an hour. Do you have anything coming up that you want to really promote?

Dean: Yeah, the remix of Shrine Song. Wait till you hear it. It’s like—imagine the scene off Blade where the vampires are raving. It’s that times 100. So there’s going to be a music video. I’m going down London in two weeks, and we’re going to shoot it. So yeah, keep an eye out for that. That’s all you’ve got to say. Tune. And the finish comes on. I love it. That was good timing.

Remix of Shrine Song out now on all platforms.